Heather Crabtree [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Your Savvy Business, a podcast for experienced online coaches and service pros who want to unlock your next level in business without compromising your goals, priorities, and values or sacrificing your boundaries. I'm your host, Heather Crabtree, your savvy business coach and growth strategist. I know you're not new to this business thing, friend. You're more than five years in, and you feel like you should have everything figured out by now. You've learned that every time you grow to new heights, new opportunities open up and new challenges arise. Each chapter brings a new level of what the heck am I doing? And you wish you had someone to support you when things start to feel hard, or a business pro to help you see your business in another light and decide what next steps to take. I am here to help. Well, me and some amazing friends who happen to be really good at their craft as well. You can think of me as your business coach and growth strategist in your back pocket who can connect you to the most brilliant people and share the good, the bad, and the I want to quit my business moments that we all have in our business but usually never talk about. There will be laughs and tears and meaningful lessons revealed along the way. I hope you will hit subscribe and join us as we navigate business and life together, and you can hop over to Heathercraftry.com to learn more. Now, let's jump into today's episode. So, today's guest is Jana O. She is a marketing expert, content strategist, and Pinterest educator for coaches and other online experts. She said that back in 2016, upon discovering that a client was leveraging Pinterest to get leads and sell her services, jana went all in on the platform. She has since developed a specialization in pinterest marketing for audience growth and lead generation, and she's on a mission to spread the word. When set up properly, Pinterest can attract Raving fans and perfect fit clients with a small investment of time each month. So I want to welcome Jana to the podcast.
Jana O [00:02:11]:
Thank you so much for having me, Heather.
Heather Crabtree [00:02:13]:
Yeah, and we'll talk about this almost every person that I'll have on the podcast I've worked with in some capacity. So we'll talk a little bit about when I hired Gianna, why I hired her, and why obviously, I'm having her on the podcast because I think she's brilliant. So, you know, if you've been listening to the podcast that I work with experienced online coaches and service pros who want to grow their business and do it in aligned and simple way, I think those are key points. I think when you've been in business for a while and you get to a point where you've done all the things everybody said and now you're overloaded, and it's like the kitchen sink has been dumped in your business. And what I find is people that I work with are like, I just want to breathe again. And it's great to have a flourishing business, but I also want to have a flourishing life. So usually most people that I work with are back on this simplification alignment, making sure that the business that they have really aligns with the life they want to live and they want to be the authority on their topic. Because even though they've been in business a long time, I think what happens is that people get a little comfortable with their business and think that, well, I don't have to do all the work that I did back then. Everybody knows who I am, so why do I got to do all this stuff still? And they've been in business for five or more years. They're experts in their subject matter, but they want more eyeballs in their websites and they want to get more clients, right. That's the key. But clearly, like I said, do it in this align, simplified way. And so today I want to chat with Jana here to talk about how we can do that with Pinterest, because what we don't want is just another thing to do that doesn't move the needle in our business, and it makes us feel overwhelmed and exhausted in all of the things. So we're going to talk about all the Pinterest things today, but I want to get started first with the basics, because a lot of people that I work with, they've maybe dabbled a little bit in Pinterest, but I think they were not using it properly, most of them, probably. And so they kind of were like, peace out, I'm done, or they never really just went and never did anything with it because they're like, how isn't this for recipes? And the reasons why you would have Pinterest didn't make sense to them. So let's talk about if someone's getting started and they need to write their Pinterest bio. We want it to attract their followers, right, that will lead to clients. Let's talk a little bit about what that bio needs to look like.
Jana O [00:05:07]:
Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question, and I actually really love starting with this question, because not only is it kind of basic stuff that you do when you're getting started, but it's also like a great lens to kind of understand how Pinterest works through. I just a preposition. So really, when it comes down to writing a bio, there's two things that I always tell people when it comes to Pinterest bio in particular. The first one is that we want to make sure we incorporate some keywords into the bio.
Heather Crabtree [00:05:35]:
Right.
Jana O [00:05:35]:
And I'm going to come back to that one and mention the second one first before I come back and give you the details on number one, even though I wanted to mention the keywords. And then number two is to remember that on Pinterest, that whole phenomenon that we've kind of figured out at this point, but we have to keep reminding ourselves about where people who read your bio, like your bio isn't really truly about you. And if it is, people kind of like their eyes glaze over. If you really make your bio about you, they're kind of like whatever. Right. Your bio, like it is anywhere, is actually about you, but it's about you in the context of what you can do for the person who's reading it.
Heather Crabtree [00:06:11]:
Right, right.
Jana O [00:06:13]:
So on Pinterest, that phenomenon where people are kind of scanning constantly for things that are relevant to them because that's just human nature and they'll totally just scan right over us and not even pay attention if we don't make it about them. That is magnified on Pinterest because Pinterest is actually a search engine and it's a place where people go looking for ideas to try and do and buy, and it's very much me time for them when they go there.
Heather Crabtree [00:06:38]:
Yeah.
Jana O [00:06:38]:
And so we know on all platforms we have to make our bio about that other person, but on Pinterest, it's even more important. Okay. So I always say we need to kind of reposition our BIOS and not tell people at this juncture anything about how many cats we have or what part of the country we live in or if we love coffee or whatever, we have to really hone in on what it is we can do for them. Right, and then the second piece of it is you want to incorporate keywords because Pinterest is a search engine and so there are seven, sometimes bordering on eight places, where we can add our chosen keywords that we choose intentionally on Pinterest to use in all the places. And your bio is one of them.
Heather Crabtree [00:07:18]:
Okay.
Jana O [00:07:19]:
So when you write your bio, you want to make sure you're incorporating those keywords. And one tip I'll give people is you can use your but your bio can be a little longer than it used to be. They actually increased it to up to 500 characters. It does get a little truncated, so make sure the good stuff is in the front, meaning it gets cut off. Right, right. But you can basically write the first sentence in a way that is captivating to people. If you can incorporate keywords, that's great, but make it something that explains to them what you can do for them. Right? And then the trick that I use at the end is just I write something like pinning about, and then I just list out some of the things I'm pinning about and those are going to be strategically selected keywords. Or keyword phrases so that I can incorporate those into my bio in a way that's natural, that reads well for humans, and just naturally lets people know what I'm pinning about, which also connects them to me. Because if they're interested in those topics. That just reinforces the idea that I have something here that would be of interest to them and they might want to follow me, want to get to know my content a little bit better. Right, yeah. The two things. Oh, sorry.
Heather Crabtree [00:08:28]:
Yeah, I know. That's okay. I loved working when I was working with you because we did the intensive and I just wasn't again, I was saying this about another platform, YouTube. I was talking to someone else today, and I was just like, it's so awesome, because I can help people all day long on strategy and all the things. And then when it comes to my business, it's like, I don't know what happened, but I think it happens to all of us when we're trying to work on our own stuff. And it was really eye opening when I worked with you. And I loved it because you were so good. We had like 3 hours and it was like we got so much done. It was so brilliant. I loved it. But the keywords and the process that you took me through to get really clear and what is interesting about that and when you're doing it for other platforms, it really goes back to that foundational marketing and messaging that you have to be really clear on. And if you're not, then doing Pinterest or whatever else it is, doesn't really work. And so for me, it was going back and going, okay, what is most important to me? What am I teaching on? And it's interesting because now the things that we talked about, then it's different. That was what, three years ago that I hired you, I think in the middle of I think it was when COVID had just started or something.
Jana O [00:09:50]:
Really? Wow.
Heather Crabtree [00:09:51]:
Yeah, it's been a while ago, but it was so wonderful because it really made me go. We went through all the keywords and it was like list and list, and then we grouped them. And your process was just so clarifying to me and like, okay, not only this is my messaging and getting really clear on that, but it also made me think about the strategic way for Pinterest to the terms and the keywords that I need to use in order to use Pinterest properly. And so that process for me was really eye opening just to go through that in itself and then afterwards all the things that we did was brilliant. But that was so great for me.
Jana O [00:10:37]:
Yeah, that's so good to hear. I always say Pinterest sometimes makes us better marketers and I think that the process that I take people through, that the three PS that I do very much like connects the dots, really between your marketing and the tactic of Pinterest. So glad to hear that. Good. Yeah.
Heather Crabtree [00:10:51]:
And so because we are so we've talked about Pinterest bio, right. The bio which she said, make it about them, not about you. And then the keywords are so important. So let's talk about how we're going to use Pinterest for lead generation, because I think the people that I'm working with, okay, how is Pinterest going to work for me, and what do I need to do in order to make it work for me?
Jana O [00:11:18]:
Right. So I think that people who are at the level of business that your clients are can really think of it in pretty simple terms, in the sense that if you want to use Pinterest for lead generation and there are lots of different ways to monetize Pinterest, but this is the way that I focus on. Right, right. The thing is, you want to use it to promote your lead magnets.
Heather Crabtree [00:11:37]:
Right.
Jana O [00:11:38]:
And I know that sometimes those two things, we know that they're the same, but sometimes just saying it that way kind of helps people understand, oh, okay, I got it. Right. Because most of the time, again, Pinterest is very I think I'm safe to say this with your audience. Top of funnel, it's all about people who are finding you. If you set things up right, people are going to find you when they search for the things that you are an expert on, that you can help them to solve the things that you coach around and help with and create content about. Right. Because your content should be aligned with the things that you do to help people. So there's people searching for those things, and they find you on Pinterest. But because of the nature of that and how that works, it's very top of funnel. A lot of those people who are finding you are new to you. They're just learning about you. There's not a lot of or really almost none like know or trust built yet. Right, right. So it's not really about I mean, yes, I've had clients for sure, and students of my courses come to me and say, oh, wow, a client found me on Pinterest. Like, she found me, she booked a call, she hired me the next day. That's great. But nine times out of ten, maybe more, it's more about getting them into your content ecosystem, right. Your marketing ecosystem. So if you think about it that way, if this fits in with your strategy, and there are other strategies you can take with pinterest, but if there's someone listening who has a strategy where they use any kind of lead magnet, really, you can promote your lead magnets on pinterest or using pinterest. And there are several ways to do that. We can create pins that promote them. We can bring people through the in Pinterest funnel that I like to set up where when they land on your profile, your cover image is actually bringing them to your signature or flagship freebie, if you want to call it that.
Heather Crabtree [00:13:16]:
Right.
Jana O [00:13:16]:
But really, if you think about it that way, it starts to kind of come into focus and clarity. If you want to generate leads with Pinterest, then what you do is you promote your lead magnets on Pinterest and you get them in front of people who are already searching for the things that they're about by using Pinterest as a search engine. As the search engine that it is.
Heather Crabtree [00:13:34]:
Yeah. And so let's talk about that a little bit more. So for your lead magnet, the thing that you are having your freebie, so you talked about having it in the visual profile, right. That when you land there, that's your call to action. Right. Where else should you have it, if anywhere?
Jana O [00:13:57]:
Well, in an ideal world, and again, this doesn't have to be your strategy, there's always going to be different ways to do things. But I really like the model where on your home page, your main call to action in your what do we call that at the top of the home page? The hero image, I think it is.
Heather Crabtree [00:14:13]:
Oh, yeah.
Jana O [00:14:14]:
Or maybe you have a hello bar, for example, like I do up at the top, that calls them to action for the main freebie.
Heather Crabtree [00:14:20]:
Right.
Jana O [00:14:20]:
Because that way when people go to your home page, it's clear your website is giving them a clear step. And so in that way, you can also talk about it in your Bio. You can add that to your Bio and have people click from your Pinterest profile directly to your home page. And then the other thing that you can do, kind of the classic model with Pinterest, is that you create Pinterest pins that are promotions for your free offers. Right. And we need to think strategically about how we want those to come across and the messaging there. And they link to the landing pages for those freebies or to pieces of content that you've created that lead people to desire that freebie.
Heather Crabtree [00:14:58]:
Yeah. Okay. Your call to action really should be in the visual part, right? And then should it be in so it should be in the Bio as well.
Jana O [00:15:10]:
I do put it in the Bio sometimes when I'm doing done for you Pinterest setups, if the person has things set up that way with their website, with their homepage, if you don't, if you have a different strategy, then we might tweak that strategy or do something different. So it's going to be a little different depending on how you have your website set up.
Heather Crabtree [00:15:30]:
Okay. And then the link should be so you're saying you could link it directly to your opt in.
Jana O [00:15:36]:
Right.
Heather Crabtree [00:15:36]:
Or you could link it to your website, which then you would have at the top, clearly, in the hero area, image area, your call to action there too. You're opt in there too. So once they land there, they're getting exactly what they need.
Jana O [00:15:51]:
Yeah, I would say eight times out of ten, when I'm doing these things, the hero image brings someone directly to the landing page.
Heather Crabtree [00:15:57]:
Right.
Jana O [00:15:58]:
But the link in Bio, we don't really call it that in Pinterest like we do in instagram world. But if you want to call it that the little link to your website that's next to your bio that goes to the home page. So that's typically how I do it. But again, it depends on how you have things set up. There are different ways to do it.
Heather Crabtree [00:16:14]:
Want to be part of a community of experienced coaches and service pros who want to grow their business with intention? Head over to Heathercrabtree.com, not only for the show notes to this episode, but also to get your copy of my digital magazine, Business Minded, a business magazine for experienced online coaches and service pros where business education, collaboration and community meet to help you unlock your next level in business. And make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. And if you're loving it, I would love for you to leave a review. It means so much to me and it's helpful to know you are listening and what you're loving. Okay, now let's get back to the show. Right, so if we're looking at lead generation, we're trying to get new people into our customer journey, right? Obviously what we talked about being really clear about who you're serving, which is just overall a good thing to know for your business, right? Again, these foundational things we talked about, the CTA, let's talk about the content that you actually create and actually pinning it. Let's talk a little bit about that and kind of what your process is for thinking through that.
Jana O [00:17:28]:
Yeah, so there's a couple of different ways you can go about things. You can think about what your content already is and do your keyword research based on what your content is about. But you can also do keyword research on Pinterest and then use that as a guide for what content to create. So content strategy, of course, is a whole nother conversation and one that I love to have. So feel free to go in that direction if you'd like. We can get away from the Pinterest mechanics a little bit if you want, but really it's about being clear on what those stepping stones are. Again, it's that customer journey. So where do you need to take people? What are the things that they need to learn and understand and hear, understand more deeply to be ready to buy from you when the time comes for you to make that offer?
Heather Crabtree [00:18:14]:
I want to get to the content part because I do have some more questions about that. But let's go into you had talked about I saw that you talked about like three phases of Pinterest growth, kind of your three phases that you have. And because my people are in growth phases, they're really about growing their business. I know people say scale a lot, some people are scaling that I'm working with, but scale is a whole different thing. And so we're really in this growth phase. They've had really great businesses for multiple years, but they want to grow in a different way, because I feel like those first five years especially, and a lot of people I work with are eight to ten years in. And there is a time I'm not really about the hustle at all because I just don't have time for that in my life. But there is a time for that in your business at this point, though, and people, when they're growing their business, it really is about that sustainability and about making things simple. How can we make things simple? How can we really make it fit within the life we want to live? Right? This is what the people that I work with are thinking about. And so when we're thinking of these three phases that you have of Pinterest growth, let's talk through kind of those three phases that you have.
Jana O [00:19:28]:
Yeah, I think this is a great question. And like you said, it's right on point for your audience. Because one of the things that we love about Pinterest is that it is not, quote, quote, just another social media channel where we need to start showing up and develop a whole new strategy and double our team just so that we can now do Instagram and Pinterest. Well, or YouTube and Pinterest, if you set it up right. And the way that I teach it and the way that I set it up for people, it can be something that just is working in the background while you're focusing on other things. Right? And one of the reasons for that is because it's a search engine, your content has a much longer shelf life. So when you put something on Pinterest, it's not that it just gets seen for the first few days, like something went on social media, and then you have to create something else because it's being pushed down the feed by all these new things. What happens is your pins can get discovered. And they do get discovered if you have things set up the right way for months and years. So you Pin something once and then it can serve you and bring you traffic and sales passively for months and years. And that's why when you hear people say Pinterest is good for passive income, that's what they mean. It doesn't mean that you never have to do anything. It just means it's much more low maintenance. And that if you're consistent about putting things on Pinterest, not all of your things, but some of your things can become what we call these legacy pins that then drive traffic and people to you for months and years. Right?
Heather Crabtree [00:20:51]:
Right.
Jana O [00:20:52]:
So that's really where it comes in. And as far as the three phases of Pinterest, because our people, my people are like your people too, not always experienced. I do work with some beginners too, but we all want to well, those of us that are long term minded and know that we want to thrive for a while, not just like burn bright in the beginning and then fizzle out and be gone. We want to be putting these more long term sustainable strategies in place that are easy and non hustle and whatnot like Pinterest is. But the other side of that coin is that it takes some time to see results. And so a way that it's sort of like with Google SEO, you wouldn't put up a couple of blog posts and then expect that Google is sending you loads of traffic by the end of the week. That's not how it works. Right, well, Pinterest is also a search engine, like Google is. So the three phases, really, the first phase is to set up and optimize. I have to look at my notes to remember what I call it.
Heather Crabtree [00:21:46]:
You're fine. So we have the three phase. I'll just say them so that you don't have to look them up because.
Jana O [00:21:50]:
I oh my gosh, thanks. Yeah. Okay.
Heather Crabtree [00:21:52]:
Set up and optimize and we'll go through Pin and Grow and then assess. And iterate right.
Jana O [00:21:57]:
Yeah. So Pin and optimize is where you act I'm sorry, set up and optimize is where you like, yes, she knows her own framework. It's where you're doing that keyword research. You're setting up your profile, you're writing your bio, you're getting your board set up so that your boards are properly keyword optimized and all that kind of stuff. And I always tell people that can take you a week, it can take you a weekend, it could be a weekend project. If you take my course or like we did together, you can do it in a few hours if you are following a really fast proven process. That's what I do, one of the things I do. So that's the first kind of phase. And then the second phase is Pin and Grow. And I always say that you should think of that phase being about six months. Okay? And so one of the things that I want you to do during the setup phase is to set up a pinning system, or what I call a Pin plan that'll take you through the first six months. And no matter what, you're just going to do that plan and we're going to make it so it's easy to implement. If you want, you can delegate it. I like to suggest that you do it yourself a little bit and then delegate it. But different things work for different people. And during that six months, I don't even suggest that you look at your analytics. I mean, if you want to pop in occasionally, it's okay. But I don't say put any I don't put any thought into it or don't read into it at all because it's better with this kind of strategy to not watch the pot boil. So if, you know you have a good process to follow a proven system, follow that and have faith is what I always say. And then at the end of six months, then you can go in at the end of six months and start looking at your analytics. And that's where in my estimation, the way I do things, the way I teach it, is that you've moved into what I call the assess and iterate phase where now you can look at your analytics, you can see which Pins are performing the best. Is there a common denominator? Is it because of when you do a call to action button? Or is it maybe Pins that are about a certain topic that people seem to be eating up on Pinterest? Or is it a certain design style? Or is it Pins that have your face in them? Maybe you start to see what the common denominators are. And by the way, you can't even really do that until you've done six months of pinning. So you have enough data to make any informed decisions, and then you can move forward and you can assess and iterate and do it based on what you're learning. But the key to it really, in my opinion, when it comes to that low lift, more sustainable approach to it, is to allow it to work for you and give it that full six months, maybe even nine months of that middle phase, which can be the hardest phase if you're sitting there watching it. But if you're off working on other things, which you should be, and not watching the pot boil, then it'll work for you.
Heather Crabtree [00:24:34]:
We talked about the setup and optimized part. We talked about the assess and iterate part, which is great because I talk about that too. I think so many business owners.
Jana O [00:24:45]:
There'S.
Heather Crabtree [00:24:45]:
Two kind of little containers where we haven't done the foundational things that allow us to really grow our business. So we have to go back and do those foundational things, which can be really annoying sometimes. And sometimes it's just because you've evolved in your business, right? And so we have to go back and relook at things, stuff like that. But then I think the other compartment that people don't do properly is that they don't look at the data. They're making decisions based off of emotions instead of data. And I love that you're like, okay, you got to set it up and optimize it. You got to do that part, but then you got to wait. But once we get that data, that data is really useful, and you got to use that data to make decisions on how we move forward, right? So I love those kind of two different areas. But the middle part, the gap in the middle, is that you got to pin, right, to grow. So let's talk a little bit about that and kind of your process when you're starting. Because I know with me, and I'd love to ask you this, because for me, I pinned when pinning was it started I think I started i. Was one of like the beta testers of Pinterest back in the day. I'm now showing my age, so I have a ton of followers. And when we work together, you're like, wow, you have a lot of followers. But it doesn't matter. You have the followers. The views aren't really there and people aren't converting to clients. Right. And I feel like a lot of clients that I work with are in this area. They use Pinterest back in the day or years ago. They kind of stopped because they didn't get that immediate gratification that some of these other platforms seem to say they're going to give you whether they do or not.
Jana O [00:26:35]:
Right?
Heather Crabtree [00:26:36]:
And then we're looking at it again and I'm like, oh, okay, I feel like I'm back at square one again. What do I do? So I love for when you and I were together, we did talk about the basics of setting up, which are so important again, setting up your profile, setting up the visual, setting up all the stuff. And part of that was like the boards that we set up, but we were together and was very strategic about naming those. Everything had this strategy behind it, this plan behind it. And so let's talk a little bit about and you can use me as an example or you can just in general share what we would do at this point because again, I haven't been doing it. We worked together and then I was like, life hit. I didn't really do anything, but I know I could go back and use that same strategy that we talked about because it still rings true. What would you do for someone that maybe because I feel like a lot of people are not going to just be new to Pinterest, they're going to have dabbled in it and either done really well and stopped or they kind of dabbled. They have a few followers and that was it. And they were like, I'm out because this is going to take way too long to get clients from.
Jana O [00:27:51]:
Right? But if they had put a plan into place at that time, now a.
Heather Crabtree [00:27:57]:
Year later.
Jana O [00:28:00]:
So I think that regardless of where you fall into that based on who's listening, that it probably is time if you've already done that optimization that set up an optimization piece, or you may find that you need to reset or re optimize right an account. You can always do that. You can always clean up.
Heather Crabtree [00:28:18]:
I feel like I'm going to have to go back and re optimize.
Jana O [00:28:21]:
Okay, yeah, right. So you could totally do that. And then it's going to be about a Pin plan. So having a Pin plan and then following it for six months. Okay, so I would be asking you questions like, okay, what are we going to Pin? And we already would have established during the set up and optimized phase what the purpose of your profile is so once we know the purpose, it makes it a whole lot clearer what we're going to be pinning, right?
Heather Crabtree [00:28:43]:
Right.
Jana O [00:28:44]:
How often we're going to pin each piece of content that you have created, for example, where we're going to send those pins, as far as links, things like that. And coming up with a really simple, easy to follow pin plan and then deciding how many pins per day or per week. I would recommend probably when someone's getting started and they haven't been consistent yet, I usually, again, depending on their situation and how much content they have and everything, we're looking at anywhere between one pin a day and maybe two pins a week, right? So that means, let's say you could look at it as like two pins a week all the way on up to maybe seven to ten pins a week at the most. I would say in the beginning, you can always increase that down the road. But I believe in the James Clear kind of approach to things, where if you want to get consistent with something, start with a no brainer amount of in terms of volume, if you will, and then get consistent with that, whether that means you doing it or your team doing it, and then you can increase from there. Right. But don't try to take this leap of biting off way more than you really want to chew and then not doing it. Because what happens is that kind of solidifies your identity as someone who started it, then stopped, right? So what you do instead is you start no brainer volume. You get that going and then again after six months, take a look and see what you can learn from the data that you now have from pinning for that period. So that's what I would say is get into the rhythm of doing one pin a day to two pins a week and get it.
Heather Crabtree [00:30:15]:
Now let's talk about what you're actually pinning, because I know that I think this might have been something that you just said, and I know you've probably said it over time too, but I think I might have just saw something either on Pinterest or on Instagram. I'm not sure which way was like, do you have to have a blog to have Pinterest? And here's the reason. I think it's a legitimate question, because I feel like back when I was first pinning, back in the day, everybody was blogging, so that was the thing to do. I think we're coming back to that. I think we're seeing this full circle back to which we love. I'm seeing short form content, right, that you still can have this short form content. But really having this long form content is going to be really important. And for me, I know I have a very specific situation because I didn't have time to do a lot of things. And my audience is different. So my audience grew up during these six years.
Jana O [00:31:14]:
Right?
Heather Crabtree [00:31:14]:
And so they're at a very different the people that I used to work with is very different than who I they're the same people. They've evolved and adapted, and their businesses are at different levels now. So I'm still working with similar people. I get repeat clients from people that I worked with from when I first started my business.
Jana O [00:31:30]:
That's so interesting. Yeah, they've done it.
Heather Crabtree [00:31:32]:
But because they're at this different level now, I have to come back in and go, okay, I don't want to talk like my old blog post would not have worked because they were talking about more foundational things, which I think is important, but at a different level now. And so me specifically, I don't have blog posts to go back to. I actually switched websites and did a whole thing. I'm probably not the best example, but let's say you do have where are you pulling this content from? Let's talk about the content, I guess.
Jana O [00:32:08]:
Yeah. So you could link your content really anywhere these days on Pinterest. And Pinterest is actually a lot more progressive, if you will, these days than they used to be, about where you can link your content and what they'll distribute, which is really good news. Okay. I still do believe in the power of long form content, and I totally agree with you. My thing is basically like short form content is good, but you have to go deep somewhere.
Heather Crabtree [00:32:30]:
Right?
Jana O [00:32:31]:
And again, I think that comes back to it's even more important on Pinterest, because we use Pinterest to get found by new people, people who are searching for what we offer and what we help with, but don't already know us. That's the Holy Grail. That's what we want. We want to grow our audience full of people who are looking already interested. They want what we offer, but they don't know us yet. Right. And then we'll bring them along, we'll nurture them, we'll grow that, like know and trust. But if they find you on Pinterest and they don't know you yet, they're going to need to get to know you somewhere, right? Yes. It doesn't have to be a blog. A blog could be great. I love a good blog. I have a blog. But it could also be podcasts, it could be show notes, it could be YouTube videos. I have a client who we did really well with linking to her YouTube videos for a long time with Pinterest.
Heather Crabtree [00:33:22]:
Okay.
Jana O [00:33:23]:
It could even really be long form social content. That's not my favorite thing to send Pinterest pins to, historically, but like I said, they're getting a little more progressive about that. So you want to link to content where you're going deep. You do have the opportunity on Pinterest now with idea pens to create deeper content. Right. But I still personally believe in creating content on a platform that you own. So I would rather see you sending that traffic and doing that nurturing on your own website in your emails and things like that, right?
Heather Crabtree [00:33:58]:
Because the Idea Pins are I kind of relate them to if you're like, I'm an instagram person, so is it like reels or Stories actually? Kind of, maybe.
Jana O [00:34:09]:
Yeah, kind of like a little bit. Like if they had a baby reels and stories, because they're a little bit deeper than a real would be, but they sort of look like reels in some cases.
Heather Crabtree [00:34:19]:
But you are creating those on Pinterest. So how does that work? And we don't have to go deep into this, because I know this is not the main topic, but how does that work with Idea Pins? Is it more of those are popping up, and I know it probably has been changing since they've come onto the platform, but how do you utilize those if you are using Idea Pins? I'm I'm curious.
Jana O [00:34:43]:
Yeah. So Idea Pins have links now, which is brand, you know, kind of like brand new information for a lot of people.
Heather Crabtree [00:34:49]:
Okay.
Jana O [00:34:49]:
When Idea Pins first came on the scene, well, first they were called Story Pins. Then they rebranded them as Idea Pins. They didn't have links. They were like, reels in that way, kind of. Right. And so they were more about getting engagement. And on Pinterest, we don't think of engagement the same way. Right. It's not like comments and likes because it's not a social media channel. But they were getting people to click they were getting people to watch over again if they were interested, those kinds of engagement signals that it was sending to Pinterest, that people like your content was healthy for your account.
Heather Crabtree [00:35:20]:
Right. And then the thought behind it is then they go to your profile and then they check out your other stuff. So it's like leading them into your content on Pinterest.
Jana O [00:35:28]:
Okay, right. And also, if people it's a little bit nerdy here, so I don't want to overwhelm people, but I will say that just them engaging with your idea pen, meaning that they watch it, they click on it, maybe they save it to a board. Because remember, Pinterest is all about saving things that we want to remember and action on later to a board that actually makes it so that Pinterest then turns around and puts more of your Pins in their feed as well. Got it, right. So it's kind of like there's different ways that the Idea Pins work. But the new thing is that Idea Pins do have links. So it's a new strategy and we're still learning it. But you can create Idea Pins now that are more like instagram stories in the sense that you can provide some insightful or inspirational information or even a how to if you really want to. I don't want to do all how to's, but you could with a link to learn more. So there is that function of an Idea pin now as well.
Heather Crabtree [00:36:17]:
It's allowing you to really well one storytell, but also just get people to know you and hear you and see you and that kind of stuff.
Jana O [00:36:25]:
Yeah, absolutely. Factor.
Heather Crabtree [00:36:27]:
Okay, so we know where the content can come from. We've talked about that and we start pinning. Right. And now we have the plan that we're going to pin. And where do the boards like pinning things to your boards? And how important are the boards to the overall Pinterest strategy?
Jana O [00:36:52]:
Very important. Yeah, they are.
Heather Crabtree [00:36:54]:
Meaning what is important about them.
Jana O [00:36:57]:
Yeah. So when you create a Pin, there are a lot of ways that we signal to Pinterest what the Pin is about. And the reason it's important for us to signal to Pinterest what the Pin is about is because we want Pinterest to show our pins to the right people. Right. So we want the people who are looking for our topics and the things that we're creating content about and that we coach about and whatnot to find us. And one of the ways that we signal that is by based on what board we put it on.
Heather Crabtree [00:37:23]:
Right.
Jana O [00:37:23]:
So if you put your Pin on a board that's called Heather's Blog, that doesn't really help Pinterest understand really what this is about. Right, but if you put your content on a board that is about podcast strategy, let's say, then Pinterest knows that this is a Pin and it leads to a piece of content. Most likely that is about how a podcast strategy can help you, help you get clients, and maybe even in the description of your board, you write, this is all the things I've learned about how to use a podcast to grow your business and get clients or something like that. So we're signaling to Pinterest what this Pin is about in lots of ways, and that's one of them.
Heather Crabtree [00:38:06]:
Okay.
Jana O [00:38:07]:
Yeah.
Heather Crabtree [00:38:07]:
And so, yeah, I was just trying to think of all the things that you would need to do because one of my questions for you was how do you get your first thousand Pinterest followers? But I think we've kind of talked through those different stages.
Jana O [00:38:21]:
You just ask Heather if you can have some of hers.
Heather Crabtree [00:38:26]:
I'm just not doing anything with it, so I need to get back on it. And this has been my kick in the butt to do it again and I'm really excited about it. What are the ways that people can work with you at this point? And obviously we'll lead them to your website. So if things change, I know you have some new things that you're working on too, that you've come out with, but what are some ways that people can work with you in terms of Pinterest?
Jana O [00:38:50]:
Oh, yeah, thank you for asking. Yeah. So I think if anyone is just sort of pinterest curious and wants to understand the basics and understand how to approach it, like the search engine that it is. If you've ever started and kind of jumped in and started to do things and then sort of started to look around and be like, wait a minute, how does this work? I do have a free Pinterest marketing masterclass, and for some people, that might be a great place to go. So it's at jennaomedia. Comfreeclass. It's pretty easy to find. So Pinterest with Purpose is my course, and that's the course that can help you to get yourself from where you are now to the end of the first phase, right, where you've got your profile fully optimized. Your keyword research is on point, you've got your keyword plan, and your profile is ready to go. It also teaches some basics about Pin creation as well, to get you started.
Heather Crabtree [00:39:37]:
Okay.
Jana O [00:39:37]:
I also offer the intensive session, which is similar to what you and I did a few years ago, although obviously I've refined the process and whatnot where we do that entire process that I teach in the course, except we do it together in 3 hours. So basically, I teach you the things, and together we both roll up our sleeves and take certain tasks together, and by the end of 3 hours, you're done and you're ready to move into phase two. So that is the other way that I work with people to get started. And then I do have a done for you offer where I set up your Pinterest profile and strategy. I only do a few of those a year, to be honest these days, but I am accepting applications for those at the time that we're recording.
Heather Crabtree [00:40:15]:
Okay, perfect. So, yes, if you are just getting started or you just are like, I don't know if I want to do it yet, go get the free training, the free class. Otherwise, if you need help with your Pinterest and you want to get started right away, jana has those options that you can choose from. So I want to thank you for joining us today. I adored working with you in the past and obviously have followed you since then. I think you're really brilliant at Pinterest marketing, and I know you have more things coming, so I'm excited to see all of those things that are coming as well. I'm honored to have you here, and I can't wait for my listeners to start or continue, whether it be one or the other, using Pinterest to get more clients. So thank you so much for joining us today.
Jana O [00:41:00]:
Thank you so much for having the conversation.
Heather Crabtree [00:41:03]:
That wraps up another episode of your savvy business. Thank you for spending your time with me today. Until next time, my friend.
