Heather Crabtree [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Your Savvy Business, a podcast for experienced online coaches and service pros who want to unlock your next level in business without compromising your goals, priorities, and values or sacrificing your boundaries. I'm your host, Heather Crabtree, your savvy business coach and growth strategist. I know you're not new to this business thing, friend. You're more than five years in, and you feel like you should have everything figured out by now. You've learned that every time you grow to new heights, new opportunities open up and new challenges arise. Each chapter brings a new level of what the heck am I doing? And you wish you had someone to support you when things start to feel hard, or a business pro to help you see your business in another light and decide what next steps to take. I am here to help, well, me and some amazing friends who happen to be really good at their craft as well. You can think of me as your business coach and growth strategist in your back pocket who can connect you to the most brilliant people and share the good, the bad, and the I want to quit my business moments that we all have in our business but usually never talk about. There will be laughs and tears and meaningful lessons revealed along the way. I hope you will hit subscribe and join us as we navigate business and life together, and you can hop over to Heathercrafttree.com to learn more. Now, let's jump into today's episode. My amazing guest today is Caroline Hall. Caroline is a podcasting strategist, manager and CEO of Wild Home Podcasting, a boutique podcast management agency. And she's a homeschool mom who helps online business owners create strategic podcasts to help them grow their businesses. She's discovered her intense love for podcasts after launching her own podcast and in the process, discovering what a powerful tool for growth a podcast can be. Caroline believes that everyone has a unique perspective and story worth sharing. She has a passion for helping online business owners share their stories and generate leads through their podcasts. She shares podcast strategies and tips each week on the podcast. Your business be wildly authentic podcast. Welcome, Caroline.
Caroline Hull [00:02:22]:
Thank you for being here today. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Heather Crabtree [00:02:27]:
Yeah, I'm super excited to chat all things podcast. As you know, I have just relaunched my podcast, and in doing so, I was like, I got to find someone to help me think through this. And so I joined Caroline's Academy, which we'll talk, and and I was like, okay, I got to have her on my podcast, because so many of my clients and my audience are also thinking about either their podcasting or they've podcasted in the past, and they're thinking about, how can I either restructure it, rebrand it, how do I do it? Now, we both know from having podcasted at the past and podcasting now, it's changing. It's different. And so I think that's why I wanted to bring someone on to talk about this, because I think it's super important. And if you want to grow and you love audio, you want to grow your business. I think podcasting is an amazing way to do it. I know. I love podcasting. Yeah. We're going to talk about it today. So let's first start off with kind of what do you need to ask? Because I think the thing about you is you're very strategic, right. It's not just let's start a podcast and not have a plan or a strategy behind it. So let's talk about the three questions you need to ask before starting a podcast.
Caroline Hull [00:03:52]:
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that I see is that, like you said, you wake up one morning, you say, I'm going to start a podcast. This is going to be amazing. It's going to be so fun. I'm going to sit in front of the microphone. But there's a lot of times a disconnect between, okay, I have this podcast, I have this thing, but how is it actually supporting my business? And so one of the very first questions that I'm always asking, I always want my clients to ask is, what are your business goals and how is the podcast going to help you reach those goals? Like, how are the two tied together? Because they are really tied together. And I also just kind of want to throw in there as we're thinking about a podcast, strategically, one of the biggest things that I also see, again, when we sit down, we record, we're excited, but we put our podcast over here and we don't necessarily incorporate it into all the things we're doing in our business already. And so when I say thinking about your goals and thinking about what do you want to achieve, how do you want to grow your business, what are the things that you want to use to grow your business, what services are you going to be offering? All of that is really important when we think about, okay, how is the podcast going to support those goals? So that's the first question, right? What is the goal for your business and how does that work with the goals for your podcast? Because the two are very connected. Yeah.
Heather Crabtree [00:05:26]:
And when I'm working with clients, the first thing I ask them is I have the growth wheel and the g is gather your business goals and desires. And I think sometimes we forget about that. We would just want to go in to start doing these things that people have told us to do or we're excited about and we're not really thinking about. Okay, what is it that we want? And I know for myself, as a coach and as a strategist, I'm all about what is the intention behind what we're doing and how does this fit within your life? Because as we're seeing a lot these days is that if you're not incorporating your business into your life and if you're working the other way around, where you're trying to work your life into your business, that will come to a screeching halt at some point. And so we really have to think being intentional, okay, if we're going to take time to do something for our business, because it does take time, it takes energy, right? Why are we doing it? How does it fit within? So which takes us to the next step of the question we have to ask next, right?
Caroline Hull [00:06:39]:
Yeah, exactly. And so then you say, okay, well, if I'm going to do this podcast and I'm going to have this thing like you said, that I'm going to spend all this time on, and it's going to support my business goals. But how does that fit into the marketing, right? How does that fit into how I'm sharing, how I'm showing up in the world, my visibility, all of those things. I mentioned that a lot of times people will have their podcasts kind of separate, like they see it as this whole separate entity. And marketing is a huge missed opportunity that I see business owners with podcasts because they'll do their podcast, they'll post about it once on social media, they might send an email newsletter and then that's it. And that drives me nuts because, you know, a podcast takes a lot of time. You sit down, you're creating an hour's worth of content and then you're probably writing show notes and posting in them on your website, which if you're not, please do that. And those show notes are just a wealth of content pieces that can be used and spread out over and over and over in all the places where you show up in the world. And so when we're thinking about a podcast strategically, we're also going to think about how can this be our main piece of marketing? How can this be like at the top of I always talk about I have a graph that I like to use which is kind of like a funnel, it's like a tree and there's all these legs coming down from it. And people are always surprised when I show that to them because I always put the podcast up here before we get to Instagram, TikTok, email newsletter, blog, Pinterest, all the places. And I think it's just something that we don't think about because we're like, okay, I have my Instagram schedule, I have my TikTok schedule, I have my email schedule. But all of that can come from one podcast episode.
Heather Crabtree [00:08:38]:
I know for me, I will say that so old Heather, who used to podcast before, wasn't strategic like that. And it was very much like what you said, I would do the podcast. It was another way I thought, okay, if people are wanting to hear my voice or not, that people are just wanting to hear my voice but it was another way that people can hear me and know about my business. But I didn't think about it and the way that I'm thinking about it now, thanks to you. Honestly, when I joined the academy, I'm a business strategist, right? So I do this all the time with other people, but for myself, I didn't see it. And my business manager was like, why are we not using the podcast as like the main thing? And then everything comes from that.
Caroline Hull [00:09:25]:
Yeah, I think it's because when you and I started podcasting years ago, and even before that, I've been podcasting for seven years now, this year, it was a completely different landscape and it was very much if you built it, they came. If you posted episodes, you got downloads. You didn't have to work for it, you didn't have to think about it. And that's really changed because podcasting itself has changed and evolved. And I think there's still that idea. People who aren't in podcasting have this view of the traditional kind of story podcasts with sponsors and advertisers millions of downloads and they say, oh well, if I have a podcast, that's what's going to happen. And that's just not the case anymore. And so when people talk about that's why I think it's so important to integrate it into everything you do in your business. Because now it's not just going to be this standalone piece that's going to generate millions of downloads and tons of money for you. Now we look at it more as I have a couple of things I like to say, like it's a library of knowledge. It's a way to build your authority for people to hear you and connect with you. I really look at it as a step in the path of people wanting to buy from you and using my podcast as like, if you want to hear more of me, go listen to this thing. And then people get a really great idea of who I am and how I talk and what I teach and then they say, oh, I want the next thing, what's the next thing she has? And so really thinking about it that way. And that's why when we think about marketing and we're using that podcast as every piece, we're also directing people back to the podcast constantly and then knowing that the podcast is going to send them elsewhere. So it really is like this huge circle of content. We're sending people here to send them there, to send them there. But I just don't think that idea of if I have a podcast, it'll generate all the people, it'll generate all the things quite works the way it does. And that's why we have to be strategic about it.
Heather Crabtree [00:11:38]:
Yeah, and I think that also so I know before when I was doing a podcast, I didn't have a lot of interviews, but I know all my peers that were doing podcasts, they were all interviews, that was all that they did. And I think now, especially with your guidance and thinking through, how is my podcast? We're starting that with the marketing and then how does that show up everywhere? Well, it allowed me to go okay, being very strategic about what each podcast episode is and how does that build upon? Because the reason why a lot of people start a podcast is to build the authority as an expert in their field. But the old way was kind of like, well, but you didn't talk about yourself or that's how I felt. You didn't talk about yourself or your own stuff. It was really like more of this kind of community connecting with other business owners to then reach their audience. That was the big thing and that's why you did it. And I feel like this new way of doing it, it gives us permission to or if you don't think you have that permission, I feel like we need to give people that it's okay to think about your podcast. Of building it in a way that is making sure we're converting people to either. Just listen more to you, to like you, to know you, to trust you.
Caroline Hull [00:13:14]:
Right.
Heather Crabtree [00:13:14]:
And then to purchase from you. And I think that's different than podcasting in the past.
Caroline Hull [00:13:20]:
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think probably a really good analogy is think about your email list or your Instagram followers and you hear people say all the time, it doesn't matter if you have 10,000 people on your email list if nobody is clicking the link and buying from you. And that's really the big shift, I think that has happened in the industry and with my clients is it doesn't matter if you have 10,000 downloads if nobody is clicking and wanting more of what you have to offer. And so really, creating aligned content that lines up with your marketing schedule, lines up with your promo schedule. And so that way when people it's like creating that connection point, right? We're creating connection. We're pulling them into our world. We're showing them that we see them through our content, that we understand their struggles. And so, like you said, it's a very different way of thinking about content and marketing altogether. Really? Yeah.
Heather Crabtree [00:14:21]:
So we set the goals.
Caroline Hull [00:14:23]:
Right.
Heather Crabtree [00:14:23]:
You say the first question you have to ask is what are your goals for the podcast? Then we see how does that fit within the overall marketing? What's this third part? Because I think this is a part we need to think about and a lot of people don't. And I even think for myself. It's a little overwhelming for me still as I don't have a big production team or anything. And it's a lot it's a lot of work.
Caroline Hull [00:14:45]:
Yeah, it is a lot of work. And so time is a huge question. How much time can you give to it and how is it going to fit into your weekly schedule as a business owner. And I think that's so important to think through. And you're absolutely right, it is very time consuming if you're doing it right. We were actually talking about this in the academy during our Q A last week because someone was asking me, there's all these things that I need to do and I feel like I can't get them all. So, you know, it really is about prioritizing. And so if you're starting a podcast to support your business goals, to be a lead generator for you, what are the tasks that you can get done right? What are the things that you can do yourself? Can you edit? Can you write show notes? Do you have templates in place for graphics? All of these things. Think about what you can do or like somebody on your team. I will tell you, up until probably like last year, I was still editing my own podcast. Just so everyone understands. I have an editing agency. I was still editing.
Heather Crabtree [00:15:55]:
So if you need someone, you know where to go. But yeah, you were editing your own.
Caroline Hull [00:16:00]:
Yeah. Because I felt like I should. I was worried to give that to somebody else. All of those things that we have as business owners, when I finally did hand that off, that was like the last piece that I still had all of my hands in. It was kind of amazing and freeing. And so I am a big advocate for outsourcing, if you can. And I think knowing, like, if you're planning your podcast or you're planning a relaunch or even if you're finding yourself becoming inconsistent with getting episodes out, a lot of times, a strategy aside, it really can just be that you need somebody to help. And it doesn't mean you have to go and hire the most expensive podcast agency. Maybe it just means you have somebody write your show notes or you have somebody create the graphics, really lay out all the steps of what you need to do and see if there are things that other people can do. Because the goal here is to have content that is aligned right. Going back to the goals, that's supporting our goals, that's supporting our marketing. And when you're constantly trying to get episodes out and do all of these pieces, then it can start to feel more like you're throwing something at the wall last minute and you don't want that at all.
Heather Crabtree [00:17:19]:
Yeah, and I think I will say too, I don't have a management team. That's my goal because I really like to do what I do best. And what I do best is the episodes. But right now and I have team members that are helping me with other parts. I have a social media manager, I have a business manager. So I do have those privileges and I'm able to have those people help me. But I don't want people because here's the thing. My audience have been in business for a while and so they think, well, if I'm going to do this, then I should be able to pay all these people and do all this stuff. And I talked about this in another episode, but I want us to let go of that shame that we feel that as experienced business owners, that we should have everything together and we should know how to do everything right?
Caroline Hull [00:18:11]:
Exactly. And that's why tackle it one piece at a time. Podcasting is a long game. This is something that in theory is going to live forever on the internet. It's not going anywhere. And so if right now, the next ten episodes, all you can do is edit and write show notes and maybe create one graphic, then do that, the point is that you're still getting it out, you're still sharing that content, and it's going to be there forever. And you know what? When you are able to do more down the road, you can always go back and reshare those old episodes. And so that was my advice the other day when we were talking about this in my academy, was just tackle the pieces. You can right now. You don't need to write a long blog post like my team writes for me.
Heather Crabtree [00:18:57]:
You just need to have some short.
Caroline Hull [00:18:59]:
Show notes and put them on your website. But you don't need to spend an hour trying to write out a three page blog post. That's not a priority right now. The priority is just recording the episodes and getting them out. And so really just saying, okay, what can I handle now? Which pieces are really important to what I'm trying to achieve right now? And start there and then you can add on later. Yeah.
Heather Crabtree [00:19:23]:
And so that last question was the time it takes to produce it and really be on a regular schedule. And a regular schedule can be different. I know for me, I knew if people are newer listening to my podcast, my daughter just passed away in February. And so for the last year, I was not able to do a lot of things that I wanted to do in my business that I know how to do. I've been a business owner for almost 20 years. I know how to do a lot, I can do a lot. But I knew that my energy and where I wanted to spend my time was not with those things. And so I chose not to do it. Even though my business soul was like, oh, I wish I could be doing my podcast right now because I really love it. But for me, it was about, okay, now that I do have the time to be able to do this, how can I do it? So I'm not overwhelmed by it. So I actually do every other week I release. And I know a lot of people would be like, no, you've got to do it every week. And I think that's great. But for me that felt like a lot because I'm also because I had to pause a lot of things in my business and I like to share this because as a business coach, I think people think, oh, she has it all together. I'm, in a way rebuilding my business in a way that works for me with the life and the way that my life works. Now, in the past really six years, my life has looked very different and so my number one is my family. And so I really made sure that anything that I did, it had impact and I was going to be able to support it with my own energy and the time I could put to it. And so I want people to know.
Caroline Hull [00:21:11]:
That when we're talking about whatever it.
Heather Crabtree [00:21:14]:
Is, the strategy, but also the consistency, what is consistent for you now? I would say you at least need I don't know, I'm not the expert here, but I don't think you'd want to do less than probably to a month. But I agree. Talk about that a little bit in terms of knowing the time that it's going to take to not only produce it but just the recordings of it and that you're going to be able to remain consistent, whatever consistent looks like for you.
Caroline Hull [00:21:44]:
Yeah, I love what you brought up about schedule because I think that's so important. We have clients that do two episodes a month. We have clients that do an episode a week and we have clients that do even more than that. And it really is, like you said, about energy and what you can handle. And there's also some other things to think about too. You can set your podcast up in seasons and so you could do a season and then take a break. I'm re airing old episodes for the next two weeks so I can take a break because I have been going nonstop for the last few months and I'm tired and that's okay. It's totally okay. I think you have to find the balance between a schedule that works for you and staying consistent with that schedule. There is one thing I will say with podcasting, we find that if you are inconsistent, so will your listeners be inconsistent. And so whatever schedule you decide to pick, definitely try and stick to it. But that's where a lot of automation comes in and batching planning in advance. I have a spreadsheet that is I plan out months of podcast content in advance and so that way when I have an afternoon so as you mentioned, I'm a home school mom. Sometimes my days do not go as planned and so I can say, oh, I'm going to sit down and record three episodes and that may not happen. And so just knowing that I have my schedule, so when I do have an afternoon where I'm like, oh, my gosh, I don't have a ton of client work. I have an hour. I can sit down and record two episodes, two, like, 20 minutes episodes, because I've got them outlined, I've got them in there. And so it's like, really know thyself, right? Like, know what you can handle, know how much time you can give to it, and then figure out how that works in your schedule. I will say I definitely think if you're doing all of the work yourself, it takes I would say about 4 hours a week at least, because recording can be up to an hour if you're doing an interview. And then if you're going to sit and edit it, that can be another hour or two, depending on what happened during the episode. And then writing show notes, scheduling, it, all of those things take time. And so, again, that's why I said, also prioritize and figure out what you need to do, but then also figure out what you can automate. If it means that all of your graphics kind of look the same, that's fine. If that's what you can do, that's fantastic. Not everybody can have an amazing Ops manager like I do. I was about to say an Alyssa because that's her name and she's amazing, but every week she creates new graphics for like, she redesigns it. Now, that wasn't always the case. It used to be me with Canva and my templates, until finally she was like, Let me do that for you. I would just do what I could do. And I think that's really important. I mean, it's definitely a time commitment. I don't want to sugarcoat that at all because it does take time. But I think with planning, like I said, batching and figuring out what pieces you can automate, you can make it so much easier on yourself.
Heather Crabtree [00:24:57]:
Want to be part of a community of experienced coaches and service pros who want to grow their business with intention? Head over to Heathercrafttree.com, not only for the show notes to this episode, but also to get your copy of my digital magazine, Businessminded, a business magazine for experienced online coaches and service pros where business education, collaboration, and community meet to help you unlock your next level in business. And you can also learn more about your success Squad, my three month intentional, action focused cohort for service pros who have been in business for five or more years and who are looking for personalized, one on one coaching and strategy. Plus a community of like minded, experienced service professionals to help you reach your business goals and make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. And if you're loving it, I would love for you to leave a review.
Caroline Hull [00:25:48]:
It means so much to me and.
Heather Crabtree [00:25:49]:
Is helpful to know you are listening and what you're loving. Okay, now let's get back to the show. So now we've talked about kind of the goals the marketing, the time, the consistency. So let's talk about kind of another thing that I know that you talk about a lot and it's really like this next step in what is the next step that you want your listeners to take in your podcast?
Caroline Hull [00:26:19]:
Right?
Heather Crabtree [00:26:20]:
And I think a lot of people don't think about that because again, I love the way that strategically you walk people through this because you need to think about why are you having this podcast, what is the intention of it? And for me it's authority building, right? I've been a business owner for almost 20 years, I've been a coach for twelve years.
Caroline Hull [00:26:45]:
But I had to kind of piece.
Heather Crabtree [00:26:47]:
Out for a little bit and I needed to come back and be able to show people that I know how to do a lot of this stuff and I can be really helpful. And I love strategy and I'm really good at being a business coach and a strategist. But my thought for why I wanted to start the podcast was twofold. It was one, I wanted to get back out there and talk to people and connect. I know podcasts can seem very like one way, but I know you talk about in the strategy in the academy and even on social, how you can make it that connection. So the things you can do so you can connect people. But also for me, it was obviously getting them to the things, helping them fulfill their desires and their business. And so knowing what their goals are and what they need and getting them to the resources that I have so they can purchase from me. That's the second goal.
Caroline Hull [00:27:48]:
Right?
Heather Crabtree [00:27:49]:
And so I think a lot of people, if you don't know what that next step is that people are going to take, then if you don't know, your audience doesn't know, right? Yeah, a little bit about that. Exactly.
Caroline Hull [00:28:01]:
And this goes right back again to those goals we talked about. First you have to get really concrete with what it is you want your podcast to do for you. And that can totally be I want to book more clients. I want to book more clients. And so how do I do that with my podcast? And it's really important to understand who your listeners are and where they are in their journey. And so I'm talking about a lot of pieces here, but it is all part of it, right? What we're creating for them is a path. I kind of mentioned that when we were talking about marketing and how we were sending people here to there. But knowing where your podcast is going to send people on that path is so important when we again go back to goals and marketing and all those things. So really understanding like, okay, if my goal is to get more clients for them to book a service, then I need to understand where they are in. Their journey and how I'm going to get them from point A to point B. What is the in between for them? What happens to them in the middle from the time they listen to a podcast today book and really understanding, like, okay, what is that next step? Spoiler alert, it is not leaving you a review. That is not the next step. We definitely want reviews, but we want to ask them to do something really specific. And so that can be joining a Facebook group, that can be joining your email list, that can be opting in to set a resource you've created like you mentioned, and really understanding how that works within your content. And so making sure that the episode you're sharing, it makes sense to then share that opt in. Does that lead into it, right? Or does it make sense for them to come to the Facebook group to get more of what you have to offer and then understanding once they've taken that next step, then what happens to them after that? I talk a lot. I like to use analogies. I'm a very visual learner. And one of my favorite analogies that I like to use for this is a cookie. So imagine that your biggest service, your main thing that you do is the cookie. And then maybe the next thing underneath that. So maybe it's like we'll use the Facebook group example. Maybe it's a Facebook group and that's like half of the cookie, right? That's where people come to get connection. They can ask questions. They get to really dive into things with you. And then we need to leave crumbs to that. And I really see the podcast as like, those crumbs, right? We're leaving Crumbs. We're leading them with those crumbs. We're saying, come over here to this thing because I see you. I see your problems. And over here is where the answer is, right? And so that's why a lot of times I'll talk about not giving away too much on your podcast. And that always throws people. They're like, oh, but shouldn't I do like, here's how to do this? And we don't want to necessarily tell them how to do all the things because they won't click and take the next step. What we want to do with our podcast is say, I see you. I see your problems. I've had these problems too. Here's some other people who's had these problems. Here's how they worked through them. And if you want to work through them, here's the thing that's going to help you do that and really planning that out and understanding how that's going to work for you and just keeping at it. What I usually do with my clients is we have one big call to action. And that's the call to action that's in the trailer. It's in the description, it's in the outro. And then from there, we can absolutely share about the other things that we're doing. But we know that on any given day, if somebody goes and listens to our podcast, they're going to hear that one thing, which is the next thing that we want them to do.
Heather Crabtree [00:31:57]:
Yeah. Which I love. And we were talking about that in the academy, I think the cool thing, which we won't talk about the whole thing we talked about, but we were talking about the customer journey for me, my client journey. And like you were saying, with the podcast, it's meeting them where they are and your people might be in different places. So I loved your example with the different types of people and where they are who need podcasting, right. And the customer journey, and you had really detailed that out and who those people are, because all those people need different things. They still want to either start or refine their podcast. But how you're going to bring them in is going to be an awareness or saying that I see where you're at, I hear you. Maybe I've been there and this is what you can do. But this person might be different than what this other person needs. Even though they're coming down to the same thing, they need a strategic podcast plan.
Caroline Hull [00:33:10]:
This was such a game changer for me. I thought I knew my customer journey. I thought I had it down to A-T-I thought I understood who my podcast listeners were. And I wasn't seeing a lot of movement with my podcast. Like, I had listeners, but nobody was clicking, nobody was coming and doing the things I was asking them to do. And so I really took a really hard look at why am I talking to people specifically at this point in their journey. So let me just give an example. I really focused on how to launch a podcast with my content. My podcast was very launch heavy. How to know if you want a podcast, here's how to launch. Here's the three things you need to do before launch. Very launch heavy. When I started paying attention to people who were coming to work with me, people that I was already working with, the questions I was getting asked on social media, I realized that nobody was asking me about launching, they were asking about podcast strategy. And so when we shifted the podcast content to really align with people at that stage in their customer journey, it was a huge game changer. And it wasn't that I suddenly got a million downloads, it was that the people who were listening were really resonating with the content. And I was even able to book clients directly from the podcast, which is like ultimate goal, right? And so if you're listening to this and you're going, oh my gosh, I have no idea where my listeners are in their customer journey. Become a detective, like I said, listen to people, even do a survey. If you can do that and see if you can figure out what people are needing from you, what they really want to hear you talk about, and you may be surprised, it may be, oh, I thought they needed this, but they actually need this other thing. And when that falls into place, it's like domino's, like everything else falls into place. Then you know what your big call to action should be, you know, what your customer path is. It really all starts to make sense. And honestly, it completely changed my business because I realized that the thing that we were really good at wasn't what we were talking about. So when we started talking about it, it was like a total shift. And that's one of the reasons I love podcast strategy so much is because when you dig into how is the podcast going to support my business? A lot of times it opens up so many things that you didn't see before. Just because it's about messaging, right? It really is all about messaging and what you're sharing and how you're sharing it. And when all those things start to line up to what you really want to do in your business, everything just starts to make so much more sense.
Heather Crabtree [00:35:53]:
Yeah, I know. For me, because people again are five or more years into their business, the challenges are different than what I used to help people with, which was in their one to two to three years when I first started coaching. And I started coaching helping people with systems.
Caroline Hull [00:36:11]:
So I had a systems course.
Heather Crabtree [00:36:13]:
And I think is when we met each other or learned each other a really long time ago. And I think the cool thing is, as I have grown and evolved, so have my audience. And so sometimes people I have this interesting thing where the people that I used to work with are still people that are coming back to work with me because I've been on the journey with them and I've grown up with them. And my business is now serving these people that I served back then, but at a different level. And so you really have to look at it's how I came up with my framework, right? And it's about really talking about with podcasting, I have a growth wheel, my framework, and the t is tailoring your marketing and sales and podcasting goes in that. But there's also like optimizing your workflows and systems. So podcasts, when you're podcasting, you kind of have to pull from these different things. And what I realized was how a lot of people teach frameworks is that it's kind of linear and they go 1234 and my audience doesn't do that. I have clients who they're hiring people and that's their big thing that we're working on right now. I have people who their offers really aren't aligning with them anymore. And so we're refining those, right? And so it's this kind of like I call it a wheel because it's like the spoke and we can pick from different things, but they all go back to how are you growing your business at this level? And how are you getting to these goals and desires that you have as you grow your business to this next level? And I think it was interesting for me because when I was thinking about the podcast this time, it was very different than what I thought about it when I did the podcast last time and how I did it. And even my messaging was completely different. Right, but I think it's cool because like you said, when you're talking about starting a podcast and the strategy you need to have, it can open up a lot of and be like the strategy and the messaging and all those core foundational things for your whole business.
Caroline Hull [00:38:25]:
Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it's so crazy. And I think what people forget too, I love that you've talked about how your messaging has evolved because I don't see that. When I was sharing that example of how I used to talk about launching and now I mostly talk about strategy, it wasn't that I made a mistake, it was that I grew as a business owner. Right. And a lot of times when we do that, we leave our podcast in the dust and we forget that when we evolve, we have to evolve our podcast with us. We have to bring it along and kind of reevaluate it and say, okay, how can it support me now? How is the podcast going to support me next year when my business probably looks a little different? That's why I get so excited about the strategy piece, because it really does help you to see it in a completely different light. It's not just record it, publish it and forget it. This is a living, breathing thing that can help you grow your podcast long term if you take the time to figure out these pieces. I love that and I just love the evolution of evolving our messaging, evolving how we share, and how a podcast can fit into that. Yeah.
Heather Crabtree [00:39:45]:
And I love the ecosystem of it.
Caroline Hull [00:39:47]:
Right.
Heather Crabtree [00:39:47]:
It really ecosystem and how is that podcast a part of that ecosystem? Right. And instead of having these compartmentalized parts of your business, I always talk about how does it all flow together? And even when I was thinking of my podcast, it really goes back to those foundational things when I started a business, like what is the mission? What is the vision for it? What are my values? And I have all those. But I wanted to make sure that everything that I did with the podcast and I feel like those things I always go through like a checkpoint. Like when I'm doing anything new with the podcast, I did that. Okay, if I'm starting the podcast and I ask myself all these questions also, how does it fit into the bigger ecosystem, but also how does everything else connect with it?
Caroline Hull [00:40:44]:
Right? It's not just how does that fit.
Heather Crabtree [00:40:46]:
In, but how does it all connect? And that has been a little bit interesting for me because as I'm really building out again and having new offers and all of these things I was asking you our last session, I was like, okay, well, I'm talking about this now, but I want to talk about these other things, but they're not quite created yet. And you were like basically like, chill out, Heather, it's okay. But I think it's really cool and I love to communicate in this way. I'm such a verbal communicator.
Caroline Hull [00:41:16]:
I love chatting with people and I.
Heather Crabtree [00:41:20]:
Think, yeah, it's just a really cool way of being able to connect. I kind of want to end on this note and talk about it a little bit with the connection part. What are some because I think what we talked about was it can feel very one way road if you make it so.
Caroline Hull [00:41:42]:
Right.
Heather Crabtree [00:41:42]:
So what are some ways that you help your clients but also just your audience in general, thinking of ways that they can bring in more connection? I'm such a relationship person, so once people are in my sphere, it's like you are family, I'm going to know everything about you. Probably the crazy aunt who knows everything way more than you ever want me to know about you and just really making that experience exceptional. I love that. I think that comes from my event planning days, like all the details and making things just not only look pretty but feel really good.
Caroline Hull [00:42:21]:
Right.
Heather Crabtree [00:42:21]:
And so with these relationships, I think we've seen kind of this, again, evolution or this circle of everything, especially in the online business world and especially in coaching where things got really automated, right? And it was like, how can you remove yourself the most from these things? And I think post COVID post all the things that the world has been through over the last three years. And I know for me and personal reasons I was disconnected. I had to be to preserve my sanity in a way. And so these deeper connections and relationships, that's how I built my business, how I built my first business, it's how I built my second business. And I think it was kind of told that we shouldn't be doing that. You don't get as connected. Try to automate all the things, kind of do all the things. We're back in this place. I feel like because everyone, I too is feeling this. I think that we need this connection. Our humanity exists is based on it. Right. We need this community and connection. And so with your podcast, which can feel very one way road, how can we make it so that we do have that connection and we can have these deeper relationships with our audience?
Caroline Hull [00:43:39]:
Yeah, I love this question. So it was really interesting because at the beginning of the year, all the trends reports started coming out the state of the podcast industry. And it's so interesting you bring this up because it's not just the online business world where this is happening in the podcast industry as a whole. So I'm talking about like, story podcasts, news, podcasts, sports podcasts, whatever they are, listeners are wanting more connection. They want to connect with the host more. This is great for us because we were already building customer paths and sending.
Heather Crabtree [00:44:14]:
People to other places.
Caroline Hull [00:44:15]:
We wanted them to connect with us, but now we're seeing that that's what everybody wants and they want more content. And so what I always tell people is to invite them, right? You have to invite people to connect with you and picking where that's going to be for you, whether that's with an email newsletter, like I said, a Facebook group. For me, it's just I fell in love with Instagram. I was like, this is where I'm going to hang out. And so I tell my audience that all the time, if you want to come hang out with me, come hang out with me on Instagram, because that's where I am. That's where you can DM me. I even have a close friends list on Instagram where I do trainings. Yes, I've been on a little bit of a summer break, and I use that as the extra connection piece between the podcast and whatever else I have going on. And so if people aren't quite ready to click or buy, I'm giving them a way to come be a part of my world in a different way. And I think another piece of this, too, that we need to talk about is like a podcast. Yes, we want you to come on the podcast. We want you to share all the things about what you do and how you do it and give advice and all those great things. But don't forget to be yourself and don't forget to share. Because I don't know about you, Heather, but I have definitely seen a trend where people are wanting to get to know me before they book, right before they sign. They want to know who I am, what I believe, what colors I like, whatever. The thing is, they want to be a part of that. And so I'm not saying that you need to share everything about yourself on your podcast, but you need to make sure that it's not just robotic scripted, that it is you sharing who you are. I have had the most comments, like, people just literally being like, oh, my gosh, Caroline, this was so funny in an episode recently because I said how old I was and how Insecure I was about my age, and I said, I don't know. I sent some really old timey phrase like golly. But none of that had anything to do with podcasting. It was just me sharing. And I was relating it to the topic I was talking about, but people connected with that, and then they wanted to talk to me about it and be like, oh, my gosh, I had.
Heather Crabtree [00:46:42]:
No idea you were that old, or.
Caroline Hull [00:46:44]:
Whatever the thing was they wanted to say. And so when we talk about building connection, not only having a place for people to go to connect with you and get more of you and get more of what you have, and also, I think it's like you said, I want to hear from them too. And so that's why I love bringing people to Instagram, because then I know I can ask them questions and get feedback as well. But being yourself and then, yeah, asking your listeners, like, hey, do you want to hear more of this? Send out a survey once a year or more. Give them the opportunity to weigh in on what's going on. Hey, I'm working on episodes for next week. Here's what I'm thinking about. Which one do you guys want me to do? And I did that recently. I had a couple of episodes. I wasn't sure which one I wanted to do, so I posted on Instagram, let my audience pick, and then I recorded it. It's just these little things like this that just makes them feel like they're part of it.
Heather Crabtree [00:47:40]:
Choose your own adventure books that I grew up.
Caroline Hull [00:47:43]:
Exactly.
Heather Crabtree [00:47:44]:
Yeah. I really am showing my age. I will be 46 this year.
Caroline Hull [00:47:51]:
And I don't think I want to just say this real quick, because I feel like sometimes when I talk about this stuff, all people hear is more things being added to their to do list. This is not me saying that you have to go out and start a community today. If you have something already, like an email newsletter, start there. How can you create more connection through that? Maybe it's sending instead of always sending a sales email, maybe you send an email and ask people like, hey, what are you up to today? Here's what I'm working on. Shoot me. Reply email back. Let me know what you're doing. It's just simple things like that. And I think we just forget sometimes, like you said, because we get an emotion. Like, we're selling, we're running a business, we're managing people. And sometimes you just have to pause and just create those small little connection points, which, by the way, are also those crumbs that I was talking about that lead to the cookie.
Heather Crabtree [00:48:42]:
It's all part of love. I on my episodes. I always love to talk about Instagram and connecting on Instagram, and I always usually give them based off of what we're talking about, like a call to action. Let's chat about it and the DMs, because I love that. I love getting to know. So that's where I am, too. I love sending people to Instagram so that we can actually connect there. And it's not just you listening to me, but I can actually get to listen to you and get to know more about you, which is super fun, right? Yeah. So, okay, we took them through the journey, what they need to do or what you would do. And I think the last question, which I didn't tell you this, but the last question I would love for you to answer is what is this is kind of a funny one. What is one thing that people come to you that you're like, this does not matter. But people think it's so important and you feel like maybe it's the I was talking to Jamar, who does YouTube strategy. The other day, and we were talking about people come and think they need this one thing, and it's like, no, that's actually the least important thing. What is that for? Maybe clients that come to you with podcasting and think, I have to have this. I know I need to do this. And you're like, well, no, that's not really that important.
Caroline Hull [00:50:11]:
I think people get really hung up on equipment and the tech piece. They think they need the fanciest, most expensive microphone, or they need the one that's in all the pictures on Instagram, which, let me tell you, that's not the one you need. Or they're like, maybe I need a recording studio, or I need to go hide in my closet and record. We have clients who will literally sit on the floor in their closet. And I'm like, you really don't have to do that. There are so many amazing tools out there now that you don't even need us to fix. You can fix your audio yourself. And I'll share this because I think it's amazing. Something that we've discovered this last month that my team and I have been working on incorporating into our process is Descript. And Descript has some amazing filters that will make your audio sound like you're in a studio sound booth. Now, it's not always perfect, let me just say. Don't feel like you have to go out, find a recording studio, buy the most expensive microphone. I think my microphone was $60 on like an Amazon Prime Day deal, you know what I mean? That is not what is going to make or break your podcast. What's going to make or break your podcast are all the other things we've talked about today. I definitely think there is an importance to sound quality, but I just don't think you need to run out, rent a sound booth, or hide in your closet to make it happen. Right.
Heather Crabtree [00:51:40]:
Because usually that stops people from doing it. Right? Exactly. I don't have the level of equipment that I need and so I'm not going to do it. And then that is a boundary that they can never get past and so they don't start the podcast.
Caroline Hull [00:51:53]:
Yeah, just start with what you have. I mean, when we started our podcast over seven years ago, my very first podcast I had with a co host, we were just using like we didn't know what we were doing. We're like, baby podcasters. We had no idea. We were just using the Apple headphones with the microphone on it and we were like, oh, this is great. And I think it was like after ten episodes, we were like, maybe we should buy a microphone. And it didn't diminish our audience at all because what it was is that we were creating connection, we were creating content that people really were excited about and so they didn't really care how it sounded. Now, that doesn't mean that we didn't improve our sound over time, but we didn't let that stop us from starting.
Heather Crabtree [00:52:40]:
Yeah, I had a feeling that's what you were going to say, but I always like to ask people because I know, let's work on the other things that we talked about and not worry so much about the equipment. Obviously you need to have something that you can talk into, but don't let it stop you from doing that. And I also think, again, there's that shame that comes in from experienced business owners. I don't know how to do it. I don't have the equipment for it. I have to have all the fancy equipment because if I'm making this much money in my business, then I have to have all no, you don't. Just begin it's.
Caroline Hull [00:53:08]:
Okay.
Heather Crabtree [00:53:09]:
All right, so let's talk about at the end. Where can we find you? I also would love you to share a little bit more about how you help people and then you have a freebie that you have too, which I would love you to share about.
Caroline Hull [00:53:24]:
Yeah, so I'm at Wildhomepodcasting.com, I'm on Instagram at Wildhomepodcasting, and then of course, my podcast. Is podcast your business? You can just go to my website and check it out there. That's a really great place to start. If you're wondering, like, okay, what is podcast strategy? What does that mean? Because that's all I talk about, how we help people. So I do have a podcast management agency and that is like a full support. Like, you give us the audio, we do everything, but then where we really shine is with our podcast refreshes and our strategy intensives. And these are really designed for people who have podcasts and they need this strategy help. They want somebody to walk them through that. And then if you're not quite ready for that, we even have a membership now called the Strategic Podcast Academy, which I'm so excited about and so proud of, and I just can't wait to see what happens with that over the next year. And that's a really great way to come and get the strategy in small actionable chunks. Each month we focus on one piece of podcast strategy, really dive in deep and create like an action plan from that and really workshop it. Yes, and if you're listening to this, and you're saying, okay, this all sounds great, but what do I do next? I think I need this in my life. The best place to start is with an audit. And so this is just taking a look at everything and weighing it against those goals, like we said. And when I say everything, I'm talking, like, description, cover all those pieces. And if you are wanting to know how to do that, you can download my free [email protected] free audit. It'll be in the show notes, right, Heather?
Heather Crabtree [00:55:04]:
Yes. Just go to your website and click.
Caroline Hull [00:55:07]:
On yeah, it's right there. But that is a perfect place to start. It's a checklist that kind of walks you through what an audit should look like and the things that you should be looking at. So get started there. Yay.
Heather Crabtree [00:55:19]:
Well, I'm so glad. Thank you so much for sharing with us. I am honored to have you on, and I'm also honored just to be a part of your academy. I really learned a lot, and as a business coach, I needed to step back for a second to see my own business outside of myself. I help so many other people with their businesses that sometimes mine gets a little foggy when I'm thinking about it myself. And so it's been really cool to be in the academy and be able to think piece by piece, but without it being overwhelming that I'm starting back. I know how to do this. I had some shame around it. Like, I know how to do this. I should be really good at this. And I was like, I don't know. I need to start. Just refresh and start again. And so it's been a really valuable piece of me really growing my podcast just from the beginning here. So thank you for that. Thank you for being on today, and hopefully all of you that are listening will either think more about starting a podcast if it's the right fit for.
Caroline Hull [00:56:23]:
You, or just go ahead and start it.
Heather Crabtree [00:56:25]:
If you don't know if that's in what you want to do, then go over and check out Caroline's stuff at her website and get her free her audit. If you do have a podcast and yeah, just take the next step, right?
Caroline Hull [00:56:40]:
You can do it.
Heather Crabtree [00:56:42]:
All right. Thank you so much, Caroline.
Caroline Hull [00:56:44]:
Thank you.
Heather Crabtree [00:56:46]:
That wraps up another episode of your savvy business. Thank you for spending your time with me today. Until next time, my friend.
